<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I would be surprised if roundoff errors in FFT should be blamed for the reported behavior<div>SB</div><div><br><div><div>On Jan 25, 2010, at 11:34 AM, O. Baris Malcioglu wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Dear Brad,<br><br>Apart from what is already mentioned, another contribution to error<br>you are mentioning might be due to computational/numeric issues.<br><br>Run-of-the-mill FFT algorithms has an error upperbound that goes like<br>O(sqrt(N)). Even in the best case (least performing) scenarios the<br>error upper bound is O(log(N)).<br><br>These errors are due to numeric precision employed, and mostly bound<br>by hardware (unless you compromise performance significantly).<br><br>In general, in any calculation that involves computers, in a graph<br>that shows the "error" as a function of some convergent parameter, I<br>would expect three regions , first the error diminishes due to<br>numerical reasons, then there is a flat region, then roundoff errors<br>begin to dominate, and error picks up again.<br><br>If interested, please have a look at the (rather rusty but still<br>valid) concept "Machine constant"<br><br>Best,<br>Baris.<br><br><br><br>2010/1/25 Paolo Giannozzi <<a href="mailto:giannozz@democritos.it">giannozz@democritos.it</a>>:<br><blockquote type="cite">Brad Malone wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I originally saw this problem with espresso-4.1.1 in a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">different system (AlAs on a 2x2x2 shifted grid).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">start with 'random' or 'atomic+random' initial wavefunctions<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(startingwfc='...'). I didn't find anything wrong with very<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">high cutoffs. Occasionally you can end up in the wrong ground<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">state, though, especially in highly symmetric cases like the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Si example you sent.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"Ghost states" are another story. It may happen that a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(nonlocal, separable) pseudopotential has a localized<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">spurious state that doesn't show up (i.e. it is not<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">occupied) at low cutoff, but it is occupied at higher<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">cutoff. None of the PP on the QE web site should have<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">such states, though.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">If you have evidence of further problems, please provide<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">a test case so that it can be reproduced. In any case,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">thank you for finding a bug in the cvs version!<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">P.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">---<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Paolo Giannozzi, Democritos and University of Udine, Italy<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Pw_forum mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Pw_forum@pwscf.org">Pw_forum@pwscf.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.democritos.it/mailman/listinfo/pw_forum">http://www.democritos.it/mailman/listinfo/pw_forum</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>Pw_forum mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Pw_forum@pwscf.org">Pw_forum@pwscf.org</a><br>http://www.democritos.it/mailman/listinfo/pw_forum<br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">---</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Stefano Baroni - SISSA</span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "> </span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">&</span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "> </span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">DEMOCRITOS National Simulation Center - Trieste</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><a href="http://stefano.baroni.me">http://stefano.baroni.me</a> [+39] 040 3787 406 (tel) -528 (fax) / stefanobaroni (skype)</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; font-size: 12px; "><br style="font-size: 12px; "></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; font-size: 12px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">La morale est une logique de l'action comme la logique est une morale de la pensée - Jean Piaget</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><br></span></font></div></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Please, if possible, don't</span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "> </span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">send me MS Word or PowerPoint attachments</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">Why? See:</span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "> </span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0023E9" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><a href="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html">http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html</a></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0023E9" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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